The intent of this outing was to compare the performance of the Garden Machete to the Magnum Kukri Machete from Cold Steel, mainly on limbing but also some light bucking.
However a bit of a surprise early on lead to the work being halted fairly quickly due to a drastic handle failure on the Garden Machete.
Closer examination of the tang after the handle was removed also shows a significant crack penetrating into the spine and progressing along the spine in front of the tang.
However useful information was gathered about the cutting and chopping performance of both blades and some confirmation on the expected durability of the chisel grind when used properly and improperly.
The initial dent/turn in the edge is 0.020″ thick at its deepest and 0.1″ wide, fairly deep for a chopping dent especially this with amount of steel (30 degrees inclusive). Again this was caused by a chisel ground out cut which is problematic for chisel ground blades on wood.
More information :
http://www.cliffstamp.com/knives/reviews/garden_machete.html
41 Comments
@555Nato Durability concerns?
For that kind of thing, I would suggest a tomahawk. You could use a heavy knife like a trail master, but the forces and impact here are perfect for a tomahawk.
Anyway, interesting video. Thanks.
@tallswede80 This knife is actually much heavier built than the Trailmaster. It is 50% heavier with a more forward balance so the impact energies are significantly greater. It works well power wise, the handle can just not take the strain of the impacts.
I have a number of axes but for standing wood like that where there is very close in growth I would prefer a longer blade simply because of the ability to sweep cut multiple targets and not have to be concerned about haft impacts.
@tallswede80 Ideally though, you would want a heavier blade and one which was a little longer, a traditional parang works well, or any similar heavy golok or bolo pattern. Just take a little care with the edge profile as this is pretty demanding cutting, much more so than felling and bucking many times over.
@CliffStamp No shit it's heavier. I never said anything about the weight. But the trailmaster is also about a thousand times stronger. I've beaten the crap out of mine. No way in hell the edge would bend over, or the handle split. And with stuff like that, weight is at least as important than sharpness. You could almost use a hammer break them instead of trying to cut them, hence, the tomahawk.
@tallswede80 Yes, as noted in the video they are easy to break, I snapped them by hand. However also as noted when you do this they leave a very sharp point both on the part that comes off and the part that is on the tree. It would be irresponsible to do that and not harvest the tree immediately, which I would not do on that tree at this time, as it is creating hazards for walking both under foot and elsewhere.
@tallswede80 As well, as noted I have many axes. I usually fell at least a cord of wood by axe each year, more if I get the time, and depending on the other wood I get from various sources.
However I would not use a short axe to do that type of work for many reasons. Primarily the short edge length would be very inefficient compared to a longer blade and secondly, in very tight ingrowth it is very difficult to avoid handle impacts.
But if it works better for you, by all means use it.
@CliffStamp Yeah, really the ideal blade would be the gurkha kukri.
@555Nato Short tangs have a bad name due to issues of construction, and they do put a weak point in the middle of the handle, that is just physics. If the tang on this one was a taper to the end (Loveless style) then the force would not be so concentrated like it was in this blade. But it is possible to built a partial tang without durability concerns, I doubt the handle would fail on the new custom I am having built.
@tallswede80 Yes, I have an 18" Ang Khola which works well for this type of work. It has the mass and balance to generate a powerful swing, but still has a fine edge to enable it to cut well and a nice tapered grind so it will be fluid in the bucking of the felled wood. I should actually take it out next time and compare it to the Cold Steel kukri machete as it is of similar length (but difference in about every other aspect).
That was a bit surprising but not at all at the same time. The Wood handle breaking like that.
The steel cracking like that was a bit more surprising. I get that this is a cheap tool , but still…
Very good info on how to work with the chisel grind.
@555Nato Such tangs can be a problem with wood. In general most traditional large knives are expected to have multiple handles as the handles are rarely as durable as the blade which would be expected comparing wood to steel. Even on the full tang knives such as billhooks usually they will go through a few handles unless a lot of care is taken with them. But yeah, modern materials are far more durable in that respect.
@SpartanJohns I had similar thoughts, I was very surprised to see a crack run up the blade and start along the spine, but was not that surprised that the handle went. But again this is the most basic/inexpensive version. It is the equivalent of the local $5 hardware store machete. I may look for an upscale version later.
@555Nato Rehandling a blade can be a non-trivial issue, that is likely one of the main reasons for the full tang slab grips they are basically invulnerable and very low maintenance. The only issue with handle modifications is to ensure that the balance is properly maintained on the knife, usually this can be done with a tapered (though full width) tang.
@555Nato The tang can be tapered in thickness just like the blade. This can achieve the same weight reduction as drilling holes, etc. and is a much more durable configuration and is also not as prone to shock as on larger blades. It however is more time consuming which is why most people will just drill a bunch of holes.
@555Nato It is much harder to fit a tapered tang, but it can be done properly, Loveless made it fairly popular again for awhile.
The main issue with all the holes is on larger blades, you don't want it for vibration purposes.
@555Nato There is a point in this video where I confused a point and implied that vibration is high on the branches because they were small. I meant to note explicitly that since they were very hard and the penetration on the chopping low then the vibration/shock is amplified. That they are small is one of the reasons they are of course hard as they die and then dry out much faster.
@555Nato When felling most would either use the poll of the axe to crack them off or a dedicated heavy edge axe like a swamper pattern to cut them. I don't like cracking them in general as it leave very sharp points exposed and if you do decide to harvest the tree it is full of sharp spalls. Try to carry that on your shoulder and have the weight shift and one of them dig in suddenly, it isn't fun.
@555Nato Yes, it however would be possible to have a knife of sufficient weight to handle this kind of work well. I may even have one such knife shortly.
@69penetrator69 Yes, swamping axes were traditionally used for this work as it is "dirtier" than normal felling. I have a couple of old swamping heads, I just have not got around to hafting them. I also have a true old style felling head (very narrow double bit) which would be very nice on the bucking but it is designed for much heavier wood, trees measured in feet not inches. I don't cut much of them any more though.
Thank you so much for the video! You just saved me some money! I was looking into buying one of these for heavy chopping and now I will not be getting one.
I dont know what kind of Japanese hand axe you have but, mine was bought on base during vietnam by my father and it has taken all matter of abuse like a champ.
Like most tools there are various grades, this is one of the most basic ones.
Have you ever actually injured yourself due to faults in the blade?
Also, was that beech for the handle?
New drinking game, every time Cliff says "Hard" you down a shot… See you in hospital 😉
Couldn't you potentially measure the strength of a steel/ht by having a bunch of specifically ground chisel type blades in different steels/hts and finding out a bit more quantitative way to see how much force is exerted
Wow… What an unabashed piece of trash. Too bad it was expensive. That had about the same durability of a harbor freight machete I bought on a whim. I don't even think the stuff they sell as Home Depot (I suspect Fiskars) which is likely comparable in relative price would have that type of durability (likely designed for abuse more than cutting any way) With a blade shape and handle shape such as that I would say that it would be very well suited to what you are doing so it is too bad that failed as it did.
I suspect that standing dead bamboo has a similar characteristic and incidentally some of the Indonesian and Tia parangs have a similar design (i'll be it, double sided). Maybe you may want to look into that as a replacement…
thank you for the honest view of the blade under real work,thats really bad quality
purpose is different? I have 3 Nata but blade and structure of handle is different.
Sadly, the best wood for handles like these, that actually grows in Japan, is Oak. Hickory would probably hold up much better..
i have a silky nata 240mm , TIPTOP
Say Heah Cliff, Nice to run into you, Dilly, Dilly.,,.p
would not a comparison to the OKC SP8 be more appropriate?
as you said, it's called a 'garden machete'…not a forest machete…. still, your video gave me very useful info…
Fricking, interesting conversation!
Same chisel grind on a guillotine…your video saved me $$$. Thanks.
Day Heah Cliff, Thanx You again. Dilly Dilly.,,.p
Why does it look like he’s 15 feet in the air
Seems weird only seeing one side of the nata ground, every one I own is ground on both sides.
Also seems to be a small garden version not ment for wood chopping as you mentioned at the end.
Thanks the only explanation of cutting vs chopping I have found on line for chisel vs double bevel and proper technique. A full length tang in the handle must be considered and should prevent the handle from breaking or splitting