While we are stewards of the land, we are also stewards of the native animals that call it home. And birds, with their declining population, need our help to keep them flying high in our shared environment. Our responsibility is to protect their home, provide them with food, and minimize the threats they face.
When I realized there was someone else who shares my deep passion for birds AND gardens, and that she wrote a whole book on making bird-friendly gardens, I knew I needed to meet and befriend her immediately. So in this episode, Jen McGuinness, aka Frau Zinnie, talks all about optimizing our gardens for our birds.
If you follow me on social media, you know that I’m a crazy bird lady. I think Frankie, my hummingbird, knows that this episode is special because he’s especially loud behind the scenes.
Check out the full show notes and blog of ‘Bird-Friendly Gardening’ here: https://growingjoywithmaria.com/bird
In this episode, we learn:
[05:29] How Jen became a plant/bird lady
[08:08] What is Jen’s gateway bird?
[09:31] What does bird-friendly gardening mean (beyond the bird feeder)?
[13:17] How will a bird-friendly garden help you and your garden?
[14:12] What is a native plant?
[15:26] Bring the soothing sounds of summer to your loved ones with Wind River Chimes
[17:01] From balconies to backyards, grow your best garden yet with Gardener’s Supply Company
[18:37] What do birds eat?
[23:07] What are the 4 major flight paths used by migratory birds?
[28:48] What can we put in our gardens to help birds build nests?
[31:41] Should you add a nesting box to your garden?
[33:28] Nourish your plants and attract birds with safe, organic Espoma products.
[35:27] How should you set up your bird baths?
[40:36] How should you create a bird-friendly feeder setup in your garden?
[45:02] How to choose bird-friendly native plants for your growing zone
[54:28] What are some easy DIY projects to attract birds to a small balcony/garden plot?
[57:53] Where can you find Jen and her book?
Order Growing Joy: The Plant Lover’s Guide to Cultivating Happiness (and Plants): https://read.macmillan.com/lp/growing-joy/
Subscribe to the Growing Joy with Maria channel by clicking the red button below the video!
Listen to the Growing Joy with Maria: The Podcast on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Play, or your preferred podcast player- just type in “Growing Joy with Maria” in the search bar on your preferred podcast player
Follow Maria and Growing Joy on Instagram @growingjoywithmaria
Join the (free) Growing Joy Garden Club: https://growingjoywithmaria.com/garden-club
Check out what products Maria uses in her plant collection on amazon https://www.amazon.com/shop/bloomandgrowradio and https://growingjoywithmaria.com/shop
this might be one of my most favorite interviews I’ve ever done mainly because it combines two of my greatest loves birds and gardening so if you follow me on socials you know that I am a crazy bird lady officially I’m obsessed with birds I live for my hummingbirds in the summer I’ve trained them to sit on my finger while they drink out of the hummingbird feeders that I have all over my house I have multiple other bird like seed bird feeders outside my office window and actually as I’m recording this episode intro for you I am looking out my window and seeing that we have three junos we have a few black capped chickies Mr and Mrs morning D here and we also have a few song sparrows outside having lunch with me and Frankie is obsessed with them every time the morning does show up Frankie like completely freaks out and starts chirping at them it’s so cute and of course if you’ve listened to the show before you know the love of my life my parakeet Frankie who routinely Tres in in the background of these interviews I love birds so much and I love gardening so much and when I realized there is someone else out there who shares my joint passion so deeply for birds and Gardens that she has written an entire book on how to make a bird-friendly garden and optimize your garden for the birds I knew I needed to meet and befriend her immediately so today we talk about how to optimize our Gardens to become safe spaces for Our Feathered Friends and I totally lose my mind so get ready to [Music] [Applause] giggle welcome to the growing Joy with plants podcast where we not only learn how to care for plants successfully but how to Simply and affordably use our plant babies to cultivate more joy in our lives by doing so I’m Maria former plant killer turned happy plant lady author of growing Joy the plant lovers guide to cultivating happiness speaker podcaster and most importantly your new best plant friend on growing Joy with plants you’ll find conversations about house plant care gardening tutorials and wellness through the lens of plants plant care is self care on growing Joy hello plant friends welcome back if you are joining us again welcome home to the growing Joy with plants podcast and if you’re new here hi I’m Maria the host of the podcast and I help you care for plant successfully and grow joy in your life while doing so oh my goodness today’s episode I’m kind of embarrassed to air today’s episode plant friends because I really let my crazy bird lady flag fly really high like I have no cool in this episode I am so giddy with Jen mcginness who is the author of bird friendly gardening she’s also known as FR Zin on socials in her blog she’s the most adorable plant friend I’ve ever met she’s so cute and so knowledgeable I’m in love with her I’m in love with her book and I’m just like so embarrassed with how I behaved in this interview I like couldn’t handle my excitement about talking to another person who loves birds as much as I do it’s so nerdy but you should love birds too and I hope this episode inspires you to love birds as much as I do or maybe not as much as I do but to really get into Birds because you’re going to find out that there’s so many different reasons why bringing Birds into your garden is good for you and for the environment they’re pollinators for so many of our plants their bird song is so intoxicating to listen to especially in the mornings and at dusk they’re so fun to watch especially if you get to see baby birds emerge from their nests and they remind you that our Gardens are an eco system that we are a small part of yes we might be stewards of the land but we are stewards of the land for the native animals that are present and we’ll get into it with Jen but the birds need our help more than ever so let’s give them our help with this episode oh boy before we dive in I’d love to ask you if you have been enjoying the content so far if today’s episode makes you smile or if one of our most recent episodes have made you smile if you could please take a minute and send the episode to your best plan friend or put it on your social media or email it to someone right I really want this podcast to serve as many people as possible and I want this accessible free educational information to be readily available for whoever needs it so shoot your favorite episode to your best plann friend without further Ado get ready to giggle at me for the entire episode with how ridiculous I act and thank you in advance to Jen for just handling me handling me in this interview here’s Jen [Music] Jen the bird lady the plant lady welcome to Growing Joy I am so excited to have you on the show today to talk about my second favorite hobby Birds next to my first favorite hobby plants thank you so much for having me on today and yes I can’t wait to talk birds and plants and all good green things I was having dinner with my husband yesterday and I was like I get to interview I get to do an interview on bird friendly Gardens tomorrow and he was like oh my God are you just you’ve made it like you’ve officially made that’s your highest Joy is birds and plants as my little baby bird Frankie Frankie my baby parakeet knows that we’re talking about birds today so I have a feeling he’s going to be very vociferous in the background when we’re talking so just heads up to you and to the listeners I have just fallen in love with you I followed you on Instagram I’ve fallen in love your passion for Birds your passion for gardening is so obvious I’ve read your book it’s incredible so for those who don’t know you already Jen will you let us know how you became the plant and bird lady that you are today sure so it was a natural progression I started growing out my own food but then I learned more about organic gardening practices and the benefits for that with the food I grow and with the soil and then that turned out to be beneficial to pollinators so I started getting into the gateway of how do I make my garden more appealing to the pollinators and then I really wanted to attract more butterflies and bees to the the garden and then I started planting more native plants to attract them but then I started noticing that the birds were showing up in the garden and they were also appreciating those native plants and especially the insects that those native plants also hosted so I’ve always been fascinated by birds I don’t consider myself a hardcore birder in any way and I feel like there’s a way to make your garden more accessible to the birds to bring you Joy just so you could look outside and see them in the garden and you don’t have to go far you don’t have to go on an expedition to go seabirds you can have them right there in your garden you know this is very interesting because what I have found now is gardening opens up a world of Joy like growing Joy my brand you know you grow joy in your garden but it’s not just growing the plants it’s growing all the other stuff that comes around with it it’s growing awe through watching plants grow it’s connecting to birds right it’s listening to bird song and you know Bird song has been scientifically proven to reduce stress hormones in your body like the human body loves being in the presence of bird song it’s understanding pollinators it’s understanding bees better it’s it opens your world up to gardening just is the key to unlocking so much joy and for me hummingbirds were my Gateway bird I don’t know if you follow me on Instagram but some of my most viral videos on Instagram have been me and my hummingbirds uh because I’ve you know they come back every year I’ve been on my property for 3 years I have hummingbird feeders and I’ll hold them and they’ll come sit on my finger and drink for me they’ve really become part of our family at this point my husband and I will have dinner on our balcony they’ll have their dinner at their feeder they’ll be right next to us kind of buzzing around hanging out with us it’s pretty wild and now to the point where if their hummingbird feeder is empty and we miss it they will come and flit and look at us through the window and be like excuse me we’re hungry can you please feed us and um man that connection is just magic I’m just obsessed and it’s just so cool that you’ve dedicated a whole book to this passion of bringing birds back so do you have a Gateway bird like do you have some sort of experience with a bird that kind of LED you down this path yeah I would say that my original Gateway bird because I have a ton of favorite birds and I feel like they change based on the season kind of like how I can’t pick a favorite plant you know my original one was the Northern Cardinal because I grew up in Queens so it was pretty you know cityscape we were lucky to have a small yard but in the winter we would put out a bird feeder and we would attract the Cardinals and I was just so enthralled as a kid with how bright they were and the red colors especially of the male cardinals and that was just what hooked me just being able to attract them to the garden and have them be a part of my life when I was little and that was such an important connection to nature for me so when I had an opportunity to have my own home and my own garden obviously like setting up the feeders was a no-brainer for me but then it was as I continued evolving as a gardener I learned that there’s a lot more to creating a bird friendly Garden instead it’s just not adding a feeder it’s so many other things that you can do that help attract them so let’s talk about that because I think most of us think bird friendly bird feeder but for most gardeners bird feeders aren’t great because it attracts squirrels and attracts things that is going to eat your garden so what does bird-friendly gardening mean that is beyond the bird feeder can you kind of unpack that a little bit more totally so you’re looking to create a habitat in your area of land whether you have a small balcony area or a small garden or if you have access to a large piece of property which is awesome if you do but then it’s incorporating native plants into your garden that will provide food cover and nesting protection for the birds that are either calling your home their habitat in their home or the ones that are migrating through in the spring or the fall and why is bird friendly gardening important what’s happening to the birds these days as Society grows and grows into these cities sure a lot of plantings at houses right now feature plants that are not native so that’s a limited amount of food resources for the birds and then you combine that with the creation of like soccer fields and new condos being put in and you’re taking away more and more of that land that the birds are using to find food and to live on so combine that with you know climate change issues and pesticide use and a lot of the birds that we have a lot of them have declined since 1970 we’ve actually lost 29% of the birds which is crazy it’s like three billion birds and we’re on track to lose another 50% in the next 50 years in North America according to the state of the birds report it’s just like something has to be done to stop and help the birds and you can be a part of that which is so empowering because I feel like there’s so many natural issues today that you look at and you’re like what can I do like this is such a bigger issue than than me but putting out you know some plants in your garden and offering some fresh water and safety for those birds is something that you can do to help them survive so it’s very empowering it’s gosh it’s just something you can do that’s good for nature and for yourself it’s a controllable I love that and I do feel like when we talk about these big conversations like climate change and sustainability which can get so overwhelming and people feel so much pressure to speak out and to be a part of every single Movement Like You can just simply create a habitat for some birds because I mean birds are pollinators birds are part of the food chain like I would imagine if we lose 50% of the birds that’s going to dramatically impact the rest of the ecosystem of the Northeast or of you know wherever these declines are being reported yeah which just it’s just makes it hurts my heart I don’t know why I’m so connected to birds I wonder if I was a bird in a past life or something but it hurts my heart to think about that yeah I totally agree with you and I hate to think that someday I’d have to go to an Avary or a sanctuary to see the birds that I kind of take for granted today um a lot of the birds that are threatened by climate change right now include like the hummingbird like the Allen hummingbird out west or the Baltimore oreo and just I mean got to do something to help them and this is the easiest way yeah you were talking about the Cardinal too I love the Cardinal we Mr and Mrs cardinal live outside and they come and visit my bird feeders I have to say though the the bright red contrast against the snow is incredible but there’s something about Mrs Cardinal with her Gray coat and her subtle red flashes that I’m like you’re the leader here like you don’t have to show off but we know you have the power Mrs Cardinal I don’t know I love her that’s right yeah she’s very stylish he’s bringing her the food yeah she’s very subtle very subtle so okay we understand why we should put birds or why we should attract birds in our garden for the Earth’s purpose but what about for our purpose so how is bringing Birds how is having a bird-friendly garden going to help my garden grow and help me as a person well I think definitely as a person there have been a lot of studies that show that bird song or seeing the birds is beneficial to our mental health they also keep insect pests in check in your garden especially when you grow those native plants that attract the insects that feed them and those native plants once you have them established in your garden they often use less water and they can also help with like cost savings for your water bill whether that’s a container garden or a backyard large backyard space or other other area yeah this is perfect I feel like last month that we released an episode on how to make a tiny Meadow in your space with graham Garder and I feel like this is a perfect companion episode to that because he talks about native plants for anyone who didn’t listen to that episode but PS you should because it was so good can you define what a native plant means and why the native plants are so important for the birds instead of a non-native plant sure so native plants are basically they’ve been in America we’ll say for this reason the whole time they haven’t been imported from another spot and because they have been acclimated to our climate and to our region they actually work with the insects in our area so those insects feed on those plants one example is like the monarch butterfly right so those caterpillars can only eat the milked they can’t eat anything else and then that’s what they need to survive so a lot of plants in gardens that are from like Asia or Europe they don’t support those native insects and if you don’t have the native insects to feed on those plants you’re not going to have the birds come in to eat those native insects so you’re missing out on a food source for them you know they’re beautiful they could be like hydrangea macro Falla or you know boxwood look which look nice in your your landscape but it’s something that will benefit the whole Ecology of of the garden when you plant native the summer brings tons of opportunities to give gifts whether it’s for weddings graduations showers anniversaries holidays and what better gift to give someone you love than a personalized Wind River Windchime plus you don’t need to leave your house to shop for one Wind River Chimes will deliver the most magical most thoughtful and personalized gift straight to the door of your beloveds because when you use the code growing Joy at checkout you get a free engraving on any engravable Windchime so you can personalize it for your loved one with a special saying a memorable date or a name for over 35 years Wind River Chimes has been passionately pursuing Harmony by delivering wind chimes that help create a peaceful soothing and restful environment and now that we are in the swing of gardening season enjoy the perfect gardening weather with the perfectly calming and inspiring Sound Of Wind River Chimes every night in the summer I sit on my balcony garden with a drink just listening to The Chimes in the wind looking at the stars it’s a freaking dream and it makes an amazing gift for yourself or for someone else so all you have to do is to go to windriver chimes.com and use code growing jooy at checkout to get a free engraving on any engravable wind chime they have options of colors and sounds you can just go on the website and click through and listen to all the beautiful sounds it’s so relaxing get it engraved with that personalized name or anniversary date or special message head to wind rer chimes.com to listen to All of the melodious options and use code growing joy for a free Engraving you know that feeling when you find a product that is so amazing you can’t help but spread the word to everyone you know that is me with the gardener Supply Company cedar raised beds I have been obsessed with them for ages I got one for my mom for Christmas two years ago in Florida and my sister who also lives in Florida liked it so much she got herself one and wanted to install multiple before her baby came and if you follow me on social media you know I just prised my sister with an entire Gardener Supply Company raised bed garden farm for her baby shower it was epic you should go check that content out on socials are you ready to join the gardener Supply Company bandwagon with me Gardener supply company is a company owned and run by gardeners making growing easier and more fun for over 40 years whether you have Acres or just a balcony they’ve got everything you need for successful indoor and outdoor growing if you are dreaming of fresh tomatoes they have you covered with containers support SPS specialized soils fertilizers and treatments make this summer your tastiest tomato season yet I know I will be don’t take my word for it peruse their website like you would peruse a clothing store sometimes I just go on gardeners.com and just look around and see what’s cool in the gardening space they have so much stuff so you can go to gardeners.com gr jooy and you can unlock free shipping when you use the code growing Joy at checkout so once again that’s gardeners.com growing jooy for all your gardening needs and exclusive Innovations and use code growing joy to unlock free shipping there was one page in your book that I when I got to it I was like oh my God this is amazing but you had pictures of all the different birds and the symbols of what they eat and then you know if they’re an insect feeder or a berry whatever so what are the different things birds do eat that we should be considering because I don’t know some people are probably so disconnected from birds and anim you know native animals they don’t know that birds eat insects right like what does a bird eat in general and where is that in my garden that I might not recognize yes I love that illustration I was so happy when we were able to include that so a lot of people you know think oh birds eat seeds right like I put them out in the in the winter in a bird seed feeder but they also eat different types of insects so they’ll be eating the caterpillars some might eat the beetles or ants like the Northern Flicker they actually hunt on the ground ground for for ants to eat some will eat spiders and then there’s other birds that will be slightly larger and they’ll eat things such as snakes I’m thinking now of like the owls and the Hawks and the Eagles they’ll go after bus and mice even frogs fish small mammals which unfortunately you know squirrels and rabbits sometimes fall into that category but won’t think about that and then you have um other categories too like the hummingbirds they’ll go for the nectar of a flower or you can put out sugar water to attract them a lot of birds will also be attracted to plants that produce berries and then small cones such as like pine cones and trees so a lot of birds are attracted to particular plants and there’s not like one size that fits all so that’s why when you incorporate a variety of those native plants in your garden you have your best option for attracting a different variety of birds coming through to to call your garden home and and find a place to eat wow and then in terms of like native grasses and stuff you’re waiting for those native grasses to to go to seed and then the birds will eat the seed pods is that how it works yes um sometimes they use the grass to even help like build their nests so or sometimes for cover too depending on if um the type of region that they’re based in they might be using that to hide from predators but yeah most of the time you’re adding those native grasses to your garden and the seeds will feed them in you know the fall and into the winter speaking about nests can we take a moment to talk about the genus of how these little birds that have tiny brains know how to create an architecturally sound Nest I don’t know if anybody has ever been able to like hold a bird’s nest in their hand we have won sweet bird nest right above our lamp right outside of our house and I put my phone up there to take a photo of it to take a peek and like the architectural intelligence of birds nests blows my freaking mind how on Earth do these birds know how to put sticks and grass together to make a home that is structurally sound enough to house their babies it’s unbelievable like in terms of just allowing yourself to have a moment of awe if you create a habitat in your garden that allows a bird to build its nest let alone just watching The Nest get built but then if you get to watch that bird have babies are you kidding me yeah it’s so awesome because you can have different areas of the yard where those birds will create Nest like I have Robins who love to make nests in the honeysuckle armor that I have out front and then they’ll sometimes switch it up and they’ll try to do it on top of my um they’ll try to make a nest on top of my lamp post you know sometimes that work sometimes it doesn’t but then up in the um the cherry tree out front there’ll be another bird that’ll nest out there I’ll put out bird houses for some of the birds that actually will frequent those that’ll be like the Rens or sometimes the chickies bluebirds you can attract with bird houses so and then there’s like birds who just do what they want like the morning doves you could have a shelf system outside you know for your garden tools and everything and they’ll just decide like yeah this is good enough for me I’ll I’ll Nest here and then you have to kind of work around I’m like oh don’t put your clay pots here because the morning TOS are occupying this right now incredible the best neighbors ever obsessed okay so let’s talk about bird migration because that’s something that even to me as I’ve developed this ridiculous relationship with my hummingbirds I go through like two days of grief yes in September when they leave when I’ve realized that they have left and they don’t say goodbye to me or I don’t realize they’re saying goodbye to me can you explain the migration of bird and why it’s so important for us to create these homes for them in their great migrations totally so some of the birds that we see will stay here year round so we’re talking about like you mentioned the hummingbirds some of the Warblers they’ll spend their Winters or yeah their Winters down south in tropical areas because then they’ll have more access to food more insects to eat and then they’ll come back up here when it’s our summertime so a lot of the birds that that do migrate in the spring and the fall they’re going to follow major flight paths that follow the geography of our continent and it’s easy to picture like where those flight patterns are based on the names of them there’s four major ones and those are the Pacific Flyway the central FlyAway the Mississippi FlyAway so you can see we’re like moving across to the East and then the Atlantic FlyAway so like the ruby throated hummingbird they’re using the Atlantic Flyway to come up to see us in the springtime and the summer so knowing which birds use which Flyway help you anticipate when they’re going to arrive in your area or when they’re going to be passing through and one of the online resources that I love to access and it’s free which is great is called birdcast have you use that no oh okay this is awesome so birdcast I think it’s like birdcast doino they um track which birds are coming through your area it’s um put together with data from Colorado State University and the Cornell lab of or orthology and they track the nocturnal migration of the birds and you can check the site see who’s coming through your area and then the next day you can go outside and see if like that actual warbler is in your backyard and that’s a lot of the ways that I’ve actually found some of the more unique Birds passing through because I’ve checked that website the night before and I’ll say oh he’s in the neighborhood I’m going to go out looking for him the next day so they are active during the Spring migration mtion and the fall migration so you should definitely check it out spring migration started on March 1st so it’s still happening so one I do want to give a shout out they’re not they don’t sponsor the show I’ve begged them to sponsor the show you mentioned Cornell Ornithology there’s this incredible app called Merlin I’m sure you know Merlin I think you you mention it in your book okay the amount of people that I have made download Merlin I will sit so Merlin ID that’s the name of the app it’s by Cornell Department of ornithology it has this cool thing where you can open it’s basically like opening a voice memo but it has voice ID so I will sit on my balcony in the Summer with the voice ID I’ll turn it on and I’ll listen to the bird song because I live in the woods so we have a lot of birds in the woods and it will literally decode what birds are singing and then pop up oh this is the junko this is the Chickity this is the crow whatever and I’ve learned so much about my local birds from Merlin because I’m just such a nerd while other people go out to bars I’m like whatever I’ll drink my glass of wine with the Merlin Bird ID on my porch that’s awesome and yeah I’m obsessed it’s a great beginner friendly tool if you’re interested in getting because the one thing with birding I feel like and I do feel like we should name this this isn’t an episode on birding I have so much respect for birders right I will become I will retire and become a burder I feel that deeply in my bones but I think biring can feel a little overwhelming sometimes it’s like you got to get the fancy binoculars and there’s just so many birds and so much knowledge that we don’t know being disconnected from them and also them kind of being hidden in trees and stuff and I just feel like the beginner friendly way to do this is to just build a garden that attracts them and then as you see them learn about them using the Merlin app or you know all these free resources we can have so anyway I’ll get off my Soap Box no I I totally agree with you I I’m like what were we even just talking about I have no idea I just like talked about the app for three minutes but I’m obsessed with it I know we just we’re just endorsing everybody here that’s helping us with the birds yeah Cornell throw us a bone yeah no it’s totally true like I have a bunch of friends who also I’ve told them about the app and they’ve downloaded it and then we’ll like we’ll take screenshots when we have the birds show up like look who’s in my yard you know and it also helps because sometimes it’s really hard to like remember the bird IDs especially of like woodpeckers or just like all the little birds you know so the fact that it comes up on a screen and you could say oh that’s I have a tough to tip Mouse in my yard or my friend and I like to call them murder floofs because they’re just so attitudy you know so we’ll joke around about that but yeah it definitely helps you break in and learn about the birds without being intimidated like I have a lot of respect for the birding Community but yeah I feel a lot more comfortable going into my yard observing and being a part of that nature as opposed to going out on an outing and you know with my binoculars and hoping I see something you know yeah totally which also sounds incredible but just not I’m not quite in that phase of life yet okay so let’s talk about nests okay how do birds make their nests I mean we I we went off on the Rampage of how much we love the nests but what what in our Gardens can we grow and can we set up to make nest building easier for Birds sure so we had mentioned before the ornamental grasses so like big blue stem grass that’s a good one that they can use there’s also something called seagrass where they’ll pull the grass out also to make the nest some birds like Rens they’ll just gather a lot of little Twigs in the garden and they’ll use that to build their nest some birds nest on the ground so that’s more of like out in like you know the Great Plains type of area but there are instances even you know here in the Northeast where Dark Eyed junos they’ll nest on the ground metal arcs I believe also nest on the ground so when you’re going into Nature Preserve this is you know outside of your garden keeping your dogs on a leash that’s also like a great thing you can do to help them survive just so those nests don’t get trampled or the birds get you know scared and and leave the nest also for your garden there’s things that you can have out there that might be a part of your life because of just you know the pets that you own that could be chicken feathers alpaca fur those make great nesting material you can put them into like a sew feeder the wire ones and then the Burrs can come and just like pick out what they want I’ve seen the chickies do that a lot and there’s also uh grap Vine bark that’s also great to leave out there for them and it’s also important to pick up the trash I know this is sounds kind of off topic but Robins will especially find anything that can be used and use that in their nest and I’ve seen them use like plastic pieces of um litter to line their nest so they’re very resourceful so giving them the tools that will create a healthy Nest is also important too so you will put a sew feeder a bird feeder filled with alpaca fur out they’re not coming for seeds they’re literally coming for the fur to help with their nest are you mixing it with seeds or it’s just the pure alpaca yeah just the pure um fur and sometimes they’re also sold like in Willow balls and they’re just you could just hang them from a bush and they’ll just come and help themselves I’ve seen it done for hummingbirds too where they have like that cage with the the cottony mat mat in there but I haven’t personally seen hummingbirds take it I would love to have a hummingbird nest in my yard but I haven’t it hasn’t happened yet oh my God they’re so little I’ve seen them on social media they’re so little I feel like people don’t understand how Little Hummingbird bodies are because they look bigger with their wings always flapping but their bodies are like as big as a jelly bean right yeah I know that that would be the ultimate to have a hummingbird nest in the yard so I’m still working on that one oh my gosh okay and then what about nesting boxes so like I was gifted an owl box a couple years ago like people get kind of crazy they make like replicas of their house on stilts for birds so what’s the purpose of a nesting box and should we be trying to incorporate a nesting box into our Garden as well sure so the nesting box like the whole diameter of the box is really what’s important because different species of birds will use different size holes to get into the box sometimes the decorative bird houses include entry holes that are just a little too large that make it really easy for like predators to get in there like like a squirrel they’ll go after like the eggs you know or a snake sometimes they can go up the pole and take out the birds also so you want to minimize that threat so so definitely you’re looking for a birdhouse that’s advertised for a specific diameter and I believe it like ranges between an inch and a quar to an inch and a half depending on what type of bird you want to attract the placement of where you’re putting that bird house also is important anything that’s too close to the ground generally you want it to be three feet or higher just to also minimize threat from the Predators you’ll ideally not want cats around um they’re one of the biggest you know consumers if you will of of birds and they’re a big threat to them so if you have Neighborhood Cats that’s something to consider when you’re having the birds come to your garden like you’re going to want to make sure that if you have a bird bath you’re putting it in an area where they can easily spot that cat and get out of there you don’t want to put something in an area where they’re camouflaged and makes makes it a lot easier for that cat to be hunting ideally we wouldn’t have cats outside but we have to work with what we’re given right [Music] so we’re talking about bird-friendly gardening today and when it comes to gardening even before you choose what plants you’re going to plant you have to figure out how to set those plants up for success by putting them in high quality soils potting mixes and then feeding them with Organic Pet Safe Bird Safe products that will ensure your plants Thrive espoma Organics is going to be your go-to brand to look for in the garden center when it comes to products like this they’re a 90 plusy old familyowned and operated company dedicated to making safe indoor and outdoor gardening products for people pets and the planet if you’re prepping your garden you can start seeds in their seed starting mix you can use uh their wide variety of potting mixes whether you’re potting in containers whether you have raised beds whether you’re growing in ground they have potting mixes and soils for all of those different growing mediums when you plant your plants help them establish faster and grow deeper roots with the biotone starter plant food all my garden is planted with a little sprinkle of biotone upon planting into the ground or into the container and then they have a line of tones which is their fertilizers that are formulated for whatever you’re gardening so they have a garden tone a bloom tone a holly tone for acid loving plants a flower tone a berry Tone If you’re growing berries a rose Tone If you’re growing roses a tomato tone which I’ve used on my tomatoes for the last 3 years whatever you’re growing they have the organic high quality products for it and if you’re a house plant parent all of my house plants are potted up in their potting mix and I fertilize with their indoor liquid plant food every time I water throughout the spring and summer to top it all off they have a huge sustainability commitment with 100% solar powerered plant zero waste manufacturing and eco-friendly packaging to learn more about their indoor and outdoor products visit esp.com to see where your local espoma dealers are or click the link in the show notes to go to my Amazon storefront where I have a curated list of my favorite espoma products thanks espoma okay wow that’s really interesting now you mentioned bird baths so how are birds using water and how can we bring water to our garden to support them is it as simple as getting a bowl of water and putting it out so that the birds can bathe in it or you know you see lots of expensive fancy marble bird baths as well so what are the different ways we can set our Birds up for success with water in the garden yeah so bird baths kind of fall into that category too with the bird houses like some are really decorative and they might be too deep which makes it not ideal for a bird to use they want to be able to have Shore footing in there so they’re going to want something that’s not very slippery if there is a bird bath you have that is deep you can customize it by adding some rocks to it so you’re kind of bringing that level up for them so they’re not going too deep dive into the bird bath so to say we talked about the height placement that’s important but you can also do ground bird BS as long as they’re out in an open area right now in um my garden I have starting in the winter and leading into the spring because of the cold overnight temperatures I have a heated bird bath and that’s based on the ground and that also attracts like a variety of other Wildlife yeah tell me about your heated bird bath because I was on your website yesterday and I found you you have like a a live stream of your bird bath yes it’s like twitch for Birds kind of like tell me more about your live stream of your bird bath and yes and it says like heated bird bath so and where do you live so I’m out of Connecticut okay out of Connecticut yeah so actually this is a great you know if birdy wants to sponsor us here’s another plug so the bir bir birdy camera so I purchased the birdy camera I would say oh maybe like two and a half three years ago now they were on Kickstarter and I just was enthralled by the idea of having a video camera for my birds so I was like sign me up so I bought one camera put it on my heated bird bath and it records all the time it is plugged into an outdoor outlet so um it is getting that constant power but anytime there’s motion it’s tripped and it records that video so that could be the birds visiting it could be other mammals like I get possums at night raccoons foxes rabbits a lot of things that I wouldn’t know are even out there but now I do thanks to that camera running so I have two heated bird bats now actually and I’m happy with both of them they both do a great job they’re also plugged into an electrical outdoor out Outlet during the winter and what they do is it keeps the water from freezing so when other natural sources are dried up or frozen up I should say this provides that fresh water so the birds can stop in and have access to that and that’s actually the first way I attracted bluebirds to my yard it wasn’t from the plants actually or the feeders I had out it was because I had fresh water available in the middle of winter and the flock just happened to be flying over they spotted the water and they started visiting so then once I had them hooked into the garden then I was like what else can I do to make them stay you know and this was during the winter that they were coming through so then I went and bought like a special Bluebird mealworm feeder so now that’s out there for them and I’ve Incorporated more plants that produce berries so that way when they’re coming through they can eat their dried meal worms they can have their berries out front so it’s kind of like a Gateway but it all started in that case with just the freshwater Source you know and keeping that water fresh is also important you don’t want it to get dirty and stagnant and like if you wouldn’t want to drink it the the birds aren’t going to want to drink it either you know it’s like kind of A good rule of thumb and then you can also use in the summertime solar fountains you can put those in your bird bath and that’s great because it creates the movement of water so you’re helping to not have you know mosquitos lay eggs in there but since you’re refreshing that water constantly hopefully you’re not having that issue anyway but then that sound of the water moving also attracts the birds in so that’s another great feature you can add to your bird bath too my father-in-law got us this tiny little we have a we have a huge pond on our property so we get epic birds like herens and all sorts of crazy birds like dive bombing the pond to eat our fish but he got us this like tiny almost the size of a donut solar fountain that has different colors that lights up at night that we’ll move around our pond which is super cute and also that sound of running water is so enjoyable for us like the sound of running water once again is like like bird song really healthy for our nervous systems to to hear and and relax too so it’s a win win right it’s a win for us and it’s a win for the birds okay so let’s talk about bird feeders because I do feel like bird feeders are the simplest easiest entry point you know I went to the dollar store and got a dollar bird feeder and they sell bird feed at the at the dollar store too so you know I started my bird Journey for $5 right but with the garden it can be a little bit of a problem because the squirrels come the rabbits come you know all sorts of stuff comes so what are some good bird-friendly gardening bird feeder practices if we want to set up a bird feeder so the number one thing um would be keeping it clean that’s like the most important thing you can do and that’s to help prevent the spread of like diseases especially in house finches they have something called the housefinch eye disease which is kind of like conjunctive for birds so keeping your bird feeders clean helps prevent the spread of that and if you did happen to have a bird visit that had the conjunctivitis you’ll want to take your feeder down and clean it with some um bleach and water there’s a ratio um I believe it’s it’s in the book but it’s also you could Google it and find it online pretty easily to clean that feeder and get it back out again you’ll want to make sure the food stays fresh and that’s important also for the hummingbird feeders too you don’t want that sugar water to get rancid in any way oh you get that black mold so quick yeah bad news so that that’s the same for the seed feeders too you don’t want to keep any food in there that’s like clumpy or wet or growing mold definitely has got to go when it comes to the type of feeder it really depends what type of bird you’re trying to attract so the woodpeckers are definitely going to favor the sew feeders I especially like the ones that have like a long piece of wood attached to them and it acts as like a tail prop so it helps the bird kind of land on the sew feeder easier and balance on there while they’re feeding I’ve had a little bit more luck attracting the larger woodpeckers for with that style you could have the high platform feeders that’ll bring in you know the Cardinals it’ll bring in the bluebirds the starlings and The Sparrows too are going to like those so oh man there’s squirrel guards you can put on feeders um ones that like clo so that way if the squirrel is hanging off of it he can’t get the food inside so it really depends what you’re looking to attract I would say that as long as the feeder is protecting the food inside keeping it safe from the elements that’s a good start to begin with when it comes to a seed feeder my parents got really into Birds during the pandemic they put some bird feeders outside of their office which was amazing because the birds are a great distraction just throughout your workday to just take your eyes off your screen it’s actually a practice I write about in my book but they you know started spending a little bit more on their bird Hobby and they bought this crazy bird feeder that spun when anything weighing heavier than a normal bird would go so when the squirrels climbed up and grabbed the little rail that the birds would sit on to eat it would Spin and throw the squirrels off but it wasn’t weight sensitive enough to throw the birds off like cuz the birds all weigh less than the squirrel so I don’t know how it works but it was so funny to watch these squirrels get thrown off the bird feeder and then the birds just happily sit there eating I mean I guess that’s kind of mean but yeah I think that’s so interesting and then what about I have been looking at that my bird buddy like now they make these smart feeders that have cameras on them that’s really cool too yeah and I think that’s also like this technology that’s happening with the bird buddy feeders the bird camera I think that’s also helping people get into birding and gardening for Birds because it’s making it much more accessible for them what’s nice about that product is that it also loads the video clips and the photos to an app on your phone so you can easily like go through it and see who’s visiting and it does a pretty good job of identifying who’s actually visiting your feeder and I mean sometimes just seeing the interactions between the birds is is hysterical in itself like you’ll see some of these pictures that people are sharing and it’s really evident that I know we’re not supposed to personify birds and you know give them traits but like I don’t know I can’t help but think like some of them are really like the Blue Jays are bossy like you were saying before the Cardinal is very stylish and she knows what’s going on you know it’s just it really comes through in those pictures even the hummingbirds I mean they will dive bomb each other if they’re both at the the feeder like they will get into major fights where sometimes I have to like go break up their fights and be like guys let’s all get along there’s plenty of liquid for all of you yeah calm down yeah but I think that’s I’m like take my money I I want all the birdie things so Okay so we’ve talked about birds bird friendly gardening specifically so how do I figure out what plants to grow for my area like how do I figure out what the right native plants are either just to attract General birds or to attract specific birds that I know are in my area like if I’m a total newbie how would you recommend me going about selecting the right plants sure so in the book A lot of the projects and garden plans provide recommended plants that you can work into your garden and that’s based on your growing zone so you’ll want to go to the USDA site to look up and see what growing zone you’re in if you’re not familiar with that already you’ll can pretty much decide by the region also a lot of the plants recommended in the book are broken up by like Northeast or Southwest so you can kind of group like oh okay this is going to work in my general area so that’s a good start on the aabon site they actually have a native plant finder where you can type in your zip code and they’ll generate a list of plants that you might want to consider also so there’s a lot of accessible ways to find those plants obviously like going to Independent garden centers that stock those plants they’re going to be a great resource for you too of um plants that work well in your region speaking of aabon you know what’s so funny aabon has my freaking number they sent me Aon is what it’s a national bird organization yes so um there’s a national aabon and then there’s chapters that report up to to them that also promote bird conservation and all the things we’ve been talking about that are great about attracting them to your Gardens and helping them survive so I guess I donated them to them last year and I was opening my mail yesterday so so funny because I literally have this on my desk right now they sent me a sticker sheet of responding so like my name with my address and then hummingbird next to them oh they know you I was like aabon you’re really hustling for my donation but obviously I’m going to donate to them I’m like please send me more of these hummingbird personalized stickers thank you oton so anyway I should send them this episode when it comes out you know I thought it was cool that you have in your book like how to grow your own bird seed that’s kind of fun yeah so how would I go about growing my own bird seed if I just wanted to take it to the next level and not even have bird feeders but just have my garden be the bird feeder yeah so there’s probably a lot of things that people are doing already to grow their own bird seed but they may not be thinking of it in that way one plant in particular is the cone flour that’s a plant that if you leave them standing in the fall it’ll be a natural bird feeder the finches will come in they’ll feed off of those seed heads sometimes it doesn’t even make it to the winter because they’re just so delicious and they can’t help themselves in the fall you know another one is sunflower seeds and there’s a way to grow those sunflowers and then when they’re starting to have the seeds ripen you can cover the seed head with like a paper bag or cheesecloth and tie it off and that allows the seeds inside to ripen and keep the birds off of it at that time so that way if you do want to harvest them and then put them back out in the winter time you have that sunflower seed that would be available then and that’s also helpful to protect them from the squirrels too because they’re going to be going after them as well because sunflower seeds seems to be like one of the most delicious ones for for seed options well and now I feel like on Tik Tok everybody’s eating sunflower heads they’re like grilling full sunout flower heads and eating them like steaks which I have not done yeah I know I see that and I’m like no that’s the bird food yeah I know I’m like I’ll leave that for my birds but I will say we I have such pest pressure up by me with deer and buos and rabbits that I can’t really grow I can only grow my balcony and I didn’t grow sunflowers this year but last year my mom used to grow or 200 sunflowers on her front lawn and the squirrels would scale the sunflowers until they tipped over to then wrestle the sunflower head on the ground and eat it all the squirrels really hustle they hustle they do they you you got to respect it you got to respect the Hustle but I’m not here for for it the squirrels are slowly becoming my enemy so in addition to a water feature in addition to a bird feeder in addition to Growing your own seeds are there any other like aspects or features of a garden that we should create I know you said housing is really important like shelter is there anything else we should be putting in our garden that provide shelter for Birds I just heard your your friend over there I know he was like yeah give it give them shelter yeah Frankie yeah so you’re basically going to want to provide the food the shelter the cover and the water so the food can you know be those berry producing shrubs I have a lot of blueberry bushes out front in my garden and I like to think that I get some of them in the summer but a lot of the birds help themselves first you grow them for the birds that’s funny yeah and they they totally have my number they’re just like oh there she is she grew this for us there’ll be a lot of trees that fruit the crab apples they’re good to have there’s also trees that will attract insects like Oaks are perfect examples of that and I believe Doug talami quotes and like totally promotes oak trees like all the time about how they’re such a good food source and Life Source for so many insects and birds so if you can incorporate one of those into your garden that’s fantastic and there are some smaller varieties I think a lot of people think oak trees like the humongous beautiful Oak that is picturesque and took years to grow but there are some smaller varieties out there to try too we mentioned the native grasses they’re great to incorporate the flowers like the cone flowers I grow a lot of Aster really like those because they not only bring in the in sex that the birds will eat but I leave them all standing in the front yard and then the birds will come and eat the seeds throughout the winter and then they’re usually so tall that they also provide cover also so when the hawk is flying over the birds can kind of hide in that front yard and have a little bit more of a chance than if they were out on someone’s front lawn where there is no cover right wow interesting okay wow any tips for hummingbirds for making my house even more of the hummingbird Haven that it is cuz I think hummingbirds are a big entry like I feel like when I post about my hummingbirds everybody comments and is like yeah I’m obsessed with my hummingbirds too I feel like they’re a good entry bird to get people jazzed yeah they’re totally like a Gateway yeah so you’ll want to look for red and yellow flowers really any bright colored flower that isn’t very fragrant will also help attract the hummingbirds to your garden a lot of them can be planted into containers like window boxes or um you know large patio pots and there’s one project in the book that talks about creating a hummingbird Haven and that focuses on those native plants that have the tubular shape of the flower the nice bright colors you can also add a water Mister to your small bird bath so before we had talked about like a solar fountain that would create that spray of water for the birds I’ve noticed that the hummingbirds are more attracted to the Mist they can fly in and out of it they really like that cool oh my God I bet that’s so cute I’ve also seen like videos where they bathe like on top of a bubbling Fountain that’s cute if you want something adorable you definitely Google that so yeah you can mix those small water features in with your container groupings and plantings but when you’re picking your plants you want to make sure you’re doing a succession of Bloom so you’ll want to be choosing plants that bloom in the spring summer into the fall so that way the birds have like a constant reason to come back and visit your patio area or the garden if you have just plants that bloom in the spring and they that’s great that it’s food for them when they show up they’ll be looking for more throughout the summer and you can always supplement with those nectar feeders too but seeing them go to the different flowers uh gosh it’s just it’s so magical seeing them zip around and what they choose too there’s some plants that I would think they wouldn’t be interested in and and they still visit like I’ve seen them visit like the open daisies and I was like oh you’re not supposed to go to those but I mean I guess it was bright and colorful enough that they did yeah they were like let me just go check it out well I can’t believe we’re at time already I could talk to you about birds all day I feel like this is one of the I’ve been the silliest in this interview BEC of most of the interviews I’ve done lately because I am just so genuinely excited to talk to you about this topic you have an amazing book I mean I read it I read it this week the thing I love about your your book is it’s perfect for someone like me who has identified their love for birds and joy but doesn’t have a lot of knowledge the book really covers the migration the nesting what they eat like it really takes it allows you to go to the next step which I really like because I feel like with your book I’m going to be able to do even more fun bird friendly stuff in my garden next year so before we wrap I would love for you to share you know I also love how your your book is organized small medium large space bases and different projects so could you give us like an idea of easy projects that you could do if you only have a balcony to attract a bird and then an easy project to do if you do have like a nice little garden plot that has space so kind of a small and a large opportunity to make your space more bird friendly totally so the one that comes to mind for a small space is the native plant container garden section there’s a bunch of varieties that will stay small that you can either plant individually into their own pot such as like a hanging basket or group them together into like a small planter like a like a 16 by 16 size planter so you don’t need something like humongous which is nice for a lot of these plants and I like to hang those like hanging baskets off of my backyard tent or just on hooks randomly in the garden and they can include plants like lowbush blueberry they stay very small Pilgrim cranberry is another one that’s more of like ground cover but you can have it trail out of the um hanging basket or some of the smaller blacke Susans they can be paired in there too so that would be a great small project to start and you can you know see what containers you have and take a look at the list of the plants in the book and see what would fit that that space for like a mediumsized garden I would say there’s a really cool deer resistant garden that I’ve put together for the book and I was able to test it out at my father-in-law’s house I got him on board to let me plant the garden there and he’s heavy on deer and you were mentioning that too before that you have a lot of deer so only the plants that made it made the cut in that list um I did lose a few that were supposed to be deer resistant but the deer ate anyway rest in peace chokeberry too yeah rip man i’ I’ve had it with the deer on my property I’m over it I’m over them it was awesome because it also introduced him to plants that he normally wouldn’t have chose at the Garden Center which is like the big blue stone grass or the great comflow which is um this plant that grows like five to seven feet tall and they create these big seed heads that the finches just you know perch on and eat so these are things that were like outside of his comfort level but were deer resistant and just seeing it come together I was able to work in some of the plants he already had in his garden such as like orange butterfly weed and corporate that in so it’s also something that like you don’t have to start with a blank slate you can work in those native plants gradually you know maybe take out one of the uh European or Asian varieties sub in a native one or if it’s too big to remove just start planting some native Selections in too and then you can have a mix of a garden they may not be all Native but some native is better than none so it’s really totally definitely accessible I love that oh my gosh I love it so much well you’re such a wealth of information I’ve had so much fun talking to you I’m your book really got me excited you know I’m look at my bird feeders right now which are frozen and have old seed from the summer I haven’t refilled them in months you’re inspiring me you know I love putting bird feeders so my desk faces a window I have three bird feeders one hummingbird feeder and two normals right outside the window with my Windchimes so I can just enjoy birds and Windchimes all day long awesome you’re inspiring me to clean out my bird feeders give them a really good sanitation refill them where can everybody find you and your book sure so I’m online as frini um I have my own site called frozen.com I’m on Instagram and Facebook under the same accounts too and the book can be found in all the major retailers such as Amazon Barnes & Noble a bunch of independent book stores uh such as like my local independent Bookstar Riverbend Bookshop so yeah it’s widely available um and I believe on quto site they even have a link that shows some of the outside of the US vendors too so it’s not just the US that guess to see it so that’s awesome yeah well I’ve just had a ball getting to know you and hopefully we’ll have you back on for another bird friendly episode in the future if people want it yeah I had such a great time talking with you and and I feel like we could talk all day about this topic so thank you so much for letting me come on and and just talk birds and and gab about it it’s been a blast it’s the dream I’m living the dream right [Laughter] now well I hope you loved this interview as as much as I loved doing it thank you so much to Jen mcginness you can find her at fr.com that’s Z NN i e she’s freny on Instagram she’s the author of bird friendly gardening I love this book if you are interested in gardening for your Birds please pick it up it was just so much fun I would just feel seen on such a new level between our joint passion for plants and birds let me know if you like this episode let me know if you have other requests for episode in the future on Garden adjacent topics like this I am installing a hummingbird friendly Garden in my office Pao and if you follow me on YouTube subscribe because that video should be coming out in the next couple of weeks it’s just how quickly we can get it edited but I’m doing an entire patio filled with hummingbird friendly plants and I’m so excited because the Hummy boys are back my hummingbirds are back and I have three feeders for them right now and when the feeders run out they like flap their wings and look at me in the window being like excuse me we’re ready for more food so hopefully planting some flowers that they’re going to like is going to help stay tuned follow along on Instagram and YouTube to see how that unfurls you know it’s funny my friend and I were talking about my love for birds and she was like you know Birds really do just bring you so much joy like they just bring everyone so much joy they’re just it’s so nice to have around I think we were talking about the local owls in my woods but anyway birds are amazing and if you haven’t got on the birding train plan friends I highly recommend it you will not be disappointed and a great place to start as in your garden so I hope this episode was informative and that it helps you keep growing Joy plant friend thank you for tuning in today it means so much to me that I get to be part of your planty journey if you like what you heard make sure you’re subscribed to the show so you never miss an episode we have so many incredible interviews and solo episodes on incredible house plant and gardening topics that you will not want to miss this year and while you’re over there in the podcast player subscribing why don’t you click over to the review section of growing Joy with plants and leave us a review reviews are tremendously helpful for the growth of the podcast so thanks in advance if you’re looking for more opportunities to grow as a plant parent with growing Joy content we’ve got so many options for you first I highly recommend you taking the plant parent personality test it’s free it’s super fun it takes 3 minutes to complete at the end of the test you’re going to get your plant parent personality profile and a curated list of of plants projects and podcast episodes that are right up your alley tailored just for you and your lifestyle inspired by your results the links are in the show notes if you’re looking to uplevel your plant 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